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From: you@somehost.somedomain (J. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies.erotica
Subject: Vivid's Cut List V. 2.5 Updated yet again
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:05:29

Here it is, version 2.5 of the list. Features this time around include a new section dedicated to reports of poor video to film transfers, lousy quality, and grainy pictures. Plus, scenes cut from "GENTLEMEN PREFER GINGER", "MASSEUSE 3", and "WHITE WEDDING". As always, we need more titles! If you happen to have caught a Vivid film in it's edited form, drop me a note at jsisgod@excite.com for free inclusion to the list. As always, you can download the most recent version of the list from my site at: http://internetdump.com/users/jsmith

Thanks,

-Justin

Vivid Video Re-Release Outtake List V. 2.5

Maintained by J. Smith (jsisgod@excite.com)

Table of Contents

I. What is this?
II. Why does Vivid Video edit their video releases? III. Why does Vivid Video edit their DVD releases? IV. Is Vivid the only company doing this? V. Is there any way one can obtain an "uncut" Vivid film? VI. How the list works.
VII. List Flaws.
VIII. The List - Content Omitted from Videos. IX. The List - Content Omitted from DVDs. X. The List - Poor Video Transfers. XI. Special Thanks.
XII. General List Information.

I. What is this?

The purpose of this list is to identify scenes and content omitted from the videotape and DVD re-releases of Vivid films.

II. Why does Vivid Video edit their video releases?

Although Vivid is acclaimed for their drop dead gorgeous starlets, and impressive productions, they are notorious when it comes to editing. If you've ever had the misfortune of purchasing a re-release of a Vivid title, you'll get a shortened copy on a 75-minute tape.

Production companies generally charge their distributors anywhere from $6.00 to $15.00 per tape for new releases. In time, the title will be "dropped" to catalog. This means the wholesale price decreases by $2.00 to $5.00. Age is the determining factor. Some manufacturers wait a month before they cut prices, others wait a year, and some never make the change at all. In Vivid's case, the transition from new release to catalog, is marked by editing as well as price cuts. Sources close to the industry tell us that this policy is exceedingly rare. The marginal savings on blank tape costs and recording time are simply not worth the trouble of re-editing. However, the powers that be at Vivid feel it's necessary, and their films are indeed edited.

III. Why does Vivid Video edit their DVD releases?

Since the DVD concept is still a mystery to me, I'll let Saki, a frequent poster of adultdvdtalk.com, field this one...

"First, since you mention you haven't seen a Vivid DVD release, their straight DVD releases fall into basically three different product lines: Vivid Wave, Vivid Raw, and Vivid DVD. Wave is their "budget" line consisting of titles almost always older than 1996 and ones that are generally not considered "A-List." Raw is their gonzo line, while Vivid DVD line has all of the new releases and older "A-List" movies, such as "The Show" and "Hardcore." Approximate street prices for these DVDs are $12-15 for Wave, $10-15 for Raw, and $20-25 for Vivid DVD.

All adult studios use one of three DVD disc formats, depending on the length and features they employ: single sided single layer (roughly holding 2.25 hours of high quality video), double sided single layer (holding 2.25 hours on each of the two faces of the DVD), and single sided dual layer (holding 4.5 hours of video on ONE side by encoding the video on two different "layers" in the disc). Obviously, the single sided, single layer discs are the cheapest to produce, and the single sided dual layer discs are the most expensive.

Another thing that is unique to DVDs is the ability to add additional information to the disc, such as alternate audio tracks (used by a couple adult studios such as Wicked and VCA to provide running audio commentaries by directors and stars), alternate video angles (more on this in a minute), star biographies, still photo galleries, fancy on-screen menus, and more. Also, the main soundtrack is encoded separately, and although most adult titles are simply encoded in stereo, a few are beginning to include digital surround soundtracks. As you might expect, all of these extras cut into the 135-minute "budget" of each side, since those features have storage requirements.

So, if you have more than 2.25 hours of "stuff" (feature and extras), you'll have to do one of 3 things: cut out some of the extras (or in Vivid's case, *some of the feature*), use a double sided disc and put half of the material on each side, or use the more expensive dual layered discs. You could also "tweak" with the encoding by turning down the quality of the video image that's encoded on the disc--roughly the same thing conceptually as recording a movie in EP instead of SP on VHS.

In Vivid's case, they do something different for each of their lines:

  • Wave: They don't spend much money in transferring these titles to DVD. Very little extra content *related to the feature* is included (maybe some still photos they dug up from their archives, but that's it). They record the feature on side A, and put their "standard extras package" (my term) on side B. The "standard extras package" is billed as 2 hours worth of extra content by Vivid and is usually 8 clips (not quite full-length scenes) from other features, plus 20-40 random still photos, and a few preview trailers for other movies.
  • Raw: They spend a little more energy on their gonzo line, often giving them nice menus and better video transfers than the Wave stuff. Vivid has also shown the willingness to use dual layer discs for the Raw line. As with Wave, Raw also includes the "standard extras package."
  • Vivid DVD: This is where we run into problems. Most of these discs have an extra feature called "multiple angles," which show 2 alternate camera shots during certain scenes (the user can select with his remote control which camera he wants to view). As you might guess, this means encoding THREE video segments per scene. The next problem is that Vivid has also been adding a "virtual reality" menu (if you are familiar with the video game "Myst," it's the same concept only crappier looking). With the VR interface, you use your remote to "walk" through a 3-D hallway to get to the menu option you want. I think a Lots of DVD viewers agree this interface is a complete waste of space. Then Vivid dumps a ton (usually 15-20) short video clips, several preview trailers, and video profiles of each of the Vivid Girls on every disc.

When you take into account that most of Vivid's A-List titles are long to begin with, you can see how they might run out of space even on a 4.5-hour dual layered disc (since the "extras package" is around 2 hours worth of random material). So Vivid chooses to cut scenes from their movies in order to shoehorn all of the extra material in."

IV. Is Vivid the only company doing this?

Yes. Further proof that this behavior is unjustified. Most adult film producers DO NOT alter the content of catalog titles. In fact, some companies never even drop their releases to catalog at all.

V. Is there any way one can obtain an "uncut" Vivid film?

Not unless you happen to purchase your copy while it is "new". For older releases, your best bet is your local video store. Many stores that rent tapes will gladly sell you the same (used) video if you ask. In addition, you may consider trading. There are several internet based communities and newsgroups that promote tape swapping. However, be selective about who you choose to trade with. Just as there are honest traders, there are scam artists as well.

VI. How the list works.

I have cataloged every Vivid film in my collection. Each film was viewed on a VCR with a real time counter. The counter was reset at the Vivid logo screen. Information recorded includes the title, year of release, running time of the original film, and the running time of the catalog re-release. A list of content omitted follows. Content omitted is a little sketchy. In most cases, I have a copy of the cable version of the original film for comparison purposes. Movie reviews which describe the full content of the original releases were consulted. Obviously, the best judge of content would be the master film itself. Unfortunately, this option is not currently available.

VII. List Flaws.

Certainly, this list has it's problems. As stated above, the content omitted is sketchy. In addition, there may be some discrepancies between the running times listed, and the actual running time of the film. I mainly rely on movie reviews for the correct time. In an attempt to be more accurate, I've added a "source" column to indicate where the running time information was collected. Please keep in mind I can only comment on those films in my collection. Unfortunately, I do not have a DVD player yet, so this list will be lacking in the DVD department. That is why I need your help. If you have viewed a Vivid film that you believe was edited, drop me a line, and list the content omitted as well as the running time. This list will not grow without YOUR contributions. I will NOT buy and review Vivid films simply for the purpose of updating the list. So please send your contributions.

VIII. The List - Content Omitted from Videos.

Title: Bad Girls: Lockdown
Released: 1994
Original Running Time: 83 minutes
Source: Review
Re-released Running Time: 74 minutes
Time cut: 9 minutes

Outtakes:

-Janine and Isis Nile pussy licking on a table. (Brief) -Janine attempts to leave the room, and gets caught by a security guard. -Several minutes of Sahara and Isis Nile blowing Steve Drake. -Steve Drake fucking Isis Nile doggie style. -Brigitte Aime blowing Shawn Ricks. Blowjob sequence truncated. -Some minor cuts occur during the last scene with Janine, Asia Carrera, and Debi Diamond.


Title: Bad Girls 4: Jayebird
Released: 1994
Original Running Time: 74 minutes
Source: IAFD
Re-released Running Time: 69 minutes
Time cut: 5 minutes

Outtakes:

-Sandi Beach starts to give Bionca a massage. She rubs her chest while Bionca kisses Sandi's bare breasts. Sandi bends over, and Bionca eats her out from behind. Sandi sits in an armchair while Bionca continues to eat her. The couple switch places, and Sandi licks Bionca's pussy for several minutes before Randy West (Bionca's husband) walks in. -A few minutes of Randy West fucking Bionca in the missionary position were omitted. The modified film shows him fuck her for about two seconds, then blowing a load on her backside.


Title: Bad Girls 7: Lust Confined
Released: 1997
Original Running Time: 76 minutes
Source: Review
Re-released Running Time: 70 minutes
Time cut: 6 minutes

Outtakes:

-Some kissing and touching between Tony Tedeschi and Mila was omitted. -Tony Tedeschi eating out Mila. Most of the sequence was cut. -Mark Davis removing his pants for Jacklyn Lick to blow him. -A few minutes of Mark Davis and Jacklyn Lick fucking were dropped. -Some close-up shots of Mark Davis screwing Lori Michaels through a hole in the wall.
-Mark Davis eating out Lori Michaels.


Title: Gentlemen Prefer Ginger
Released: 1986
Original Running Time: 85 minutes
Source: Excalibur Films
Re-released Running Time: N/A
Time cut: N/A

In regard to the catalog version of "Gentlemen Prefer Ginger" Diesel says:

"I bought GENTLEMEN PREFER GINGER, and the re-release is hacked to pieces. Ginger's scene with Amber is edited to almost no foreplay and seems to end abruptly. The blowjob scene with Peter North is also shortened. But strangely enough, the DVD of the this movie has the complete Ginger and Amber scene without edits."


Title: Going Down
Released: 1996
Original Running Time: 74 minutes
Source: IAFD
Re-released Running Time: 69 minutes
Time cut: 5 minutes

Outtakes:
-The first scene between Rachel Love and Bobby Vitale was truncated. Otherwise the film appears unaltered.


Title: Masseuse
Released: 1990
Original Running Time: 85 minutes
Source: IAFD
Re-released Running Time: 71 minutes
Time cut: 14 minutes

Outtakes:

-Several awkward dialog edits. Amazingly, the sexual content was left intact!


Title: Masseuse 2
Released: 1994
Original Running Time: 89 minutes
Source: Adam Film World Review
Re-released Running Time: 71 minutes
Time cut: 18 minutes

Outtakes:

-Asia Carrera stripping for Steven St. Croix. -Ashlyn Gere fucking Carl Radford with a strap on.

These are the only cuts I know of. The rest are unknown. Although, there must have been many more.


Title: Masseuse 3
Released: 1998
Original Running Time: 131 minutes
Source: Tape
Re-released Running Time: 71 minutes
Time cut: 60 minutes

Outtakes:

-Entire sex scene between Leanni Lei and Herschel Savage. -Entire sex scene between Katie Gold, Taylor Hayes, and Jamie Gillis.

They probably cut a lot more, but these were the most obvious edits reported to me.


Title: Scandal
Released: 1995
Original Running Time: 87 minutes
Source: IAFD
Re-released Running Time: 68 minutes
Time cut: 19 minutes

Outtakes:

-Brittany Andrews strip tease scene for Tony Tedeschi was shortened. -Several minutes of foreplay between Brittany and Tony also got axed. -Oral sex sequence with Tony eating Brittany was cut. -The missionary position between Tony and Brittany was shortened. -Joey Silvera taking topless photos of Asia. This is intact, but much shorter on the re-release.
-Foreplay between Joey and Asia was truncated. -One entire sex scene between Dallas and Joey Silvera was axed. -Joey eating out Asia from behind in the dressing room scene with Busty Brittany. This whole sequence was absent from the video.


Title: Scrue
Released: 1995
Original Running Time: 77 minutes
Source: Review
Re-released Running Time: 71 minutes
Time cut: 6 minutes

Outtakes:

-Several minutes of Jill Kelly and Joey Silvera fucking missionary were cut. -Bobby Vitale eating out Roxanne Hall on a kitchen table. -Blow job between Ian Daniels and Shelby Stevens was shortened by a minute or two. The time editors made a few errors with the music in this one.


Title: White Wedding
Released: 1995
Original Running Time: 84 minutes
Source: IAFD
Re-released Running Time: N/A
Time cut: N/A

In regard to the catalog version of "White Wedding" BckRub commented:

"One of the good things about Vivid's compilation tapes is that they usually tell you what film the scene was originally from and who is performing in the scene.

I was really turned on by a scene billed as being from "White Wedding" with Roxanne Hall/Nick East and Chasey Lain/Alex Sanders getting it on in a recording studio. Very hot performance by Roxanne.

So I bought White Wedding. The scene was cut about in half, particularly the material with Roxanne. The most frustrating thing about this is that it was the best scene in the movie!"

+ EDITOR'S NOTE: The scene to which he is referring was first on the tape, and featured Marc Wallice with Chasey Lain, not Alex Sanders. Some of you may have caught this flick on late night pay cable under the altered title "Impending Groom".


Title: World According to Ginger
Released: 1986
Original Running Time: 88 minutes
Source: Review
Re-released Running Time: 71 minutes
Time cut: 17 minutes

Outtakes:

-Some dialog that was not crucial got cut. The editing was very awkward I might add.
-Anal sex between Randy West and Patti Petite was truncated. The whole scene lasted about 18 seconds.
-Ginger receiving a spanking for being a witch.


IX. The List - Content Omitted from DVDs.


As stated earlier, I do not have access to a DVD player. Many of you do, and have complained about similar editing appearing on Vivid DVDs. Not wanting to limit the scope of this list, I am including the comments of readers who have sent me mail in regard to the DVD outtakes. On that note, please keep in mind that I cannot personally attest to the accuracy of the information provided.

Title: Bad Wives
Released: 1997
Original Running Time: 135 minutes
Source: Review
Re-released Running Time: N/A
Time cut: N/A

In regard to the DVD release of "Bad Wives", Thom Burr commented:

"In the DVD version of "Bad Wives" both of Tricia Deveraux's scene have been meddled with. Her first scene (also the first scene of the disc/tape) has been chopped up in order to provide a number of alternate angles. I'm pretty sure that the DVD scene runs shorter than the tape version. (But I tossed out my tape before I noticed the changes, so I'm going on memory.) However, if you add up all the footage from the multiple angles, the DVD scene probably has more footage than the tape.

Tricia's second scene (next to last on the tape/DVD, I think) has been seriously cut. Her anal sex segment was reduced to just about a couple seconds, and Missy's anal has also been largely slashed. Multiple angles do not compensate for these omissions in any way.

There are almost certainly other truncated scenes in the DVD, but I was only paying attention to those two."


Title: Masseuse 3
Released: 1997
Original Running Time: 131 minutes
Source: Video
Re-released Running Time: 72 minutes
Time cut: 59 minutes

Outtakes:

-Sex between Taylor Hayes and James Bonn. On DVD, he receives a blowjob only.
-Entire sex scene between Taylor Hayes, Billy Glide, and Mr. Marcus. -Entire sex scene between Tia Belle, and Jenteal. -Entire sex scene between Leanni Lei and Herschel Savage. -Entire sex scene between Katie Gold, Taylor Hayes, and Jamie Gillis.


Title: Shame
Released: 1994
Original Running Time: 86 minutes
Source: IAFD
Re-released Running Time: N/A
Time cut: N/A

In regard to the DVD release of "Shame", Jeff Bailey commented:

"Easily the best scene (IMHO) in Philip Christian's "Shame" is the oozing love fest between Mina & Vince Voyeur. The original release had it at around 6 minutes (way too short!). The video re-release of "Shame" cuts it to around 3 1/2 minutes and the DVD leaves it at 3:00."


X. The List - Poor Video Transfers.

Some reader comments on Vivid's excellant video tranfers...

"I once bought a copy of THE SWAP 2 because my old original was wearing out. This "new" copy looked like total shit. The picture was washed out with almost no colors and the transfer looked like it was recorded at EP speed [the tape was in SP]. I have no idea if it was edited because I returned for another copy which looked even worse. The same thing happened with purchases of movies like ANONYMOUS and CHEATING." -Diesel

"Aside from being cut to ribbons, the catalog re-release of Masseuse (1990) is a really lousy tranfer to boot. Washed out picture, drop outs, and distorted audio are just a few of the problems that plagued this viewer's copy. Thinking about buying the Masseuse combo pack special? You might want to think twice." -J. Smith

XI. Special Thanks.

Obviously this list would not exist without the help of those kind individuals who donated information.

My hat goes off to film Producer/Director Jim Gunn, who set me straight on many of the issues regarding the sale, distribution, pricing, and re-release of adult films. Jim currently works for Pleasure Productions, and has a great web site at http://www.jimgunn.com/ I cannot thank him enough.

Also, lets have a big round of applause for Saki for providing valuable insight in to the DVD side of the industry.

I would also like to thank the following people and organizations...

Adam Film World
Adult Video News
BckRub
Caballero Home Video
Diesel
Den's Cyberspace Reviews
Garcon 98
Mike
Zabeaner
Jeff Bailey
Thom Burr
Natalie Dawn
Howard Levine
Joey Markham
Roger T. Pipe
Peter van Aarle

XII. General List Information

For the most recent copy of the Vivid Outtake list, please visit my site at http://internetdump.com/users/jsmith

Email your complaints, contributions, feedback, and questions to Justin, at jsisgod@excite.com

Also, if you would like to discuss this with me personally, you can send me an instant message on AOL or AIM: jallen217

I'm usually online between the hours of 5:00pm and 10:00pm eastern time. Feel free to drop me an email if you want to chat, or add me to your buddy list and wait until I get on.

-The Vivid Video Re-release Outtake List V. 2.5 (c) J. Smith 2000


 

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