INTERVIEW- KAHN TUSION
I'm are here at the Anabolic offices with director Kahn Tusion. We are going to start by discussing a new line that you have coming out.
This is a line that has been on the books for about two months. The release date on the first one is either February 7th or February 15th. It's call 'Oral Consumption' and is an all oral line. It will compete, and I hope that the word compete is not appropriate because compete means that there are actually equal competitors on the field, with the other blowjob tapes out there, Dr. Fellatio, Cocksmokers and the like. But, we have done something different. Chris has an enormous amount of vision and courage and has allowed me to pursue something that I think is missing in pornography and that is shooting real sex. I would say that ninety eight percent of things that you view are fine, but not real. The interviews are staged, the scenarios are staged and that doesn't appeal to me personally. I have directed a line that I believe will appeal to segment that is really interested in the heart and soul of the ladies that we are all jerking off to.
Why did you decide to make your new line an oral line as opposed to a straight sex or gonzo line?
First of all there is a lot of verbalization in the line and it takes place during the sex. Frankly, an oral line acclimates itself to that. I am holding the camera and I am literally face to face with the young ladies so I can ask her questions and make certain inquisitions. The questions aren't like 'what's your sign' or 'what's your favorite color.' Some of them are quite odd and at inappropriate moments. What they are there for is to elicit a real response so you can see a real person. I wasn't interested in doing that during a sex line because there is too much going on. In the oral line, whether the young lady is sucking cock, eating butthole or licking feet, I am right there in front of her and always able to communicate with her.
Are we going to see you in this line, or are you staying strictly behind the camera?
You will hear my voice, but you will not be able to see me. With this interview, you have the rare pleasure of seeing me in person. You can see that if I were to ever perform in front of the camera, it would probably diminish sales by eighty to ninety percent.
I do keep waiting for the horns to pop out of your hat.
(Kahn removes his baseball cap.)
Contrary to popular belief, no horns.
And no hair. I was going to make a joke about being late, that I was busy getting the horns filed down so as not to scare you off.
Who are some of the stars in the first 'Oral Consumption?'
I would love to shoot all fresh girls if I could, and did have the pleasure of shooting one young girl who has never done anything before. I shot some girls who you don't see very often. There are also a few well known names. Jewel Valmont, contrary to incredible rumor, is continuing to work with me. She might even say that she thinks I'm a bit of a cutie. You are going to see a nice mix. There are fourteen girls in every movie. Each scene will run between five and fifteen minutes each, but will average out at about ten minutes each. Most every scene will incorporate a multitude of popshots. There are a few singles, but a lot of doubles and triples. There are a few established stars, as I said. In the first one I would say Jewel Valmont is the most well known. There is a new girl named Kurious who is great in it. Kianna Bradley is another well known actress who is in it, as well as a slew of unknown talent.
I hear a few names there of people who have worked for you before, so they are coming back for more?.
Yes, some of them are coming back. It's the battered wife syndrome, they want to get away, but they just can't.
Do you have any plans for a third series, or do you have your plate full with the existing two?
Well, I guess you wanted a scoop, so I'm going to give you one. At this time, I am not shooting any scenes for 'Rough Sex 3.' As a matter of fact, to call it back burned would probably be the most flattering assessment of it right now. There is a reason for that. Specifically, until we can sort out how we are going to be able to convey to all of those people that purchase our product and those who don't purchase our product, that this is a legitimate enterprise, and hopefully this interview will help me do that, I am personally not interested in being flogged. I'm more interested in flogging women. So, consequently, right now I am not shooing Rough Sex scenes and frankly I don't know if that will ever happen. The new line I have coming up is a sex line. We don't have a title for it yet. It incorporates that which I am good at, and that is shooting, and I don't want to sound like a terrible person, but shooting women as objects. I am trying to convey that it is a segment of the pornography world that not only exists, but is quite popular. There is nothing wrong with it if the person on the receiving end, whether it be degradation or whatever, receives gratification from it. It's something that they practice in their everyday lives. We are going to shoot sex scenes that incorporate that and hopefully it will have as much impact as 'Rough Sex' did.
I don't that anything has had as much impact as 'Rough Sex' recently. Was 'Rough Sex' the first thing you ever directed?
I have been an assistant director for Chris at Anabolic for six or seven years. I had and idea for the first line. Actually, before we get into that, I'd like to show you some of the stuff from 'Oral Consumption.'
(We settle in at the editing monitors to watch a few scenes.)
I want you to be candid with me. This isn't going to be something that appeals to everyone. It is important to me to be interesting. I am a porn consumer, I've been watching porn for twenty five years. Ninety percent of it is banal. That's all there is to it. Someone mentioned to me that you're a bit of a porn hisotorian and as such, this will have some impact on you. Twenty years ago, for us to see a DP was earth shattering. I'm being very candid with you, you couldn't keep the semen contained in your ballsack. This girl was such a whore, my God, look at what she's doing. Now that's so commonplace that it no longer holds any interest. I am going to tell you what I believe the secret to my pornography and pornography in general is. I believe that in order to be exhilaratingly erotic, the woman has to exhibit some shame. It's become a shameless business. I get these girls and I say we want thirty five guys to fuck you in the ass and she says fine and if you want to you can just back a truck up into my ass. There is no shame. I found a little shame and I believe that it's erotic.
(We sit down and watch the title sequence for 'Oral Copulation' which shows a mix of some of the verbal exchanges that will fill the movie, followed by a three guy scene with Kurious where she is probed at all the wrong times during her somewhat shameless display of dick, ass and toe sucking.)
OK, what did you think?
This is does not look like your average blowjob tape. It's very different.
I appreciate you saying that.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you were shooing for something different. Do you watch a lot of other blowjob tapes?
Yes I do.
Sum up what is missing from the others in one phrase.
What we talked about earlier. Reality. Most of the blowjob tapes are products of expediency. They can shoot a girl blowing some guy right in the edit bay, shoot ten scenes and make a tape out of it. There is not thought in them. Why even have a girl? Why not have an anamatronic or a Pixar assimilated figure. These girls have no soul, but they do have soul if you pay attention to what you're doing. If you can draw that out, it becomes erotic. There are a few people who are actually good at it, but I don't want to mention their names because they have been bashing me so I don't want to compliment them.
(He then cues up a scene with a rather shy first timer.)
This is very interesting, the girl was there for the dough. She and her boyfriend figured as long as they are fucking, they might as well do it for money. I'm shooting her and I ask her to masturbate. She said she can't do that in front of people. This is a girl who ate ass, for the first time in her life, took a money shot and I asked her if she would drink piss. She even agreed to do that for a couple hundred bucks. With all that, she won't masturbate in front of us. It was incredible and that is what pornography should be. The girl isn't that hot in the scene, but she was just incredible. It was wonderful. At least I think so. I'm my own biggest fan. I happen to think I'm a good fucking pornographer. Now we can go to Bunny Luv. She is fabulous, completely unaffected until you work something out of her.
(We watch a popshot with Bunny which somehow manages to, in fact, effect her.)
OK Rog, now you've had a taste, fire away.
It's certainly unlike anything on the market.
Good, that's what I want to do.
There is a lot of dialog in this, like in your other work. You seem to be trying to open the girls up a bit.
Why do you think that's important?
It's important to me personally because of what I've viewed in pornography over the last twenty five years. One of the things that has been missing for me in my personal jerk off experiences has been the identity and soul of the young ladies doing pornography. Let's be candid with each other, this is a shameful profession and that's what makes it eroptic and unique. A lot of the porn that I see has lost sight of it. That's why I try to talk to them and draw them out. I let lots of things go and will ask a small and poinent question at an awkward time so that they are defenseless and you get an honest response. The reason I do it is because it gives me a hard on and hopefully it gives someone else a hard on as well.
When will this tape be out?
All right, we have to talk about 'Rough Sex' because everyone is. From the interent, to Geneross.com to Al Goldstein at the AVN Awards, you are the topic on everyone's tongue. Just so we start out with all our cards on the table, I have seen both 'Rough Sex' movies and reviewed number two this week. They are not my cup of tea at all, not even remotely close.
I can appreciate that.
In the review however, I did point out that your movies are well lit, well shot, with good looking performers and from what I have seen, they are better technically than anything of it's kind. So, while I certainly don't like the tapes, I give them credit for what they are.
That's all I can ask for.
The first person within the industry I heard take shots at you was Goldstein at the AVN Awards. Were you there or did you hear what he said?
I am quite familiar with what he said.
What are your thoughts?
My honest appraisal is this. For some reason, 'Rough Sex' has garnered an unwarranted amount of attention and criticism. There are between three and eight thousand movies released each year and I'm pretty proud of my work, but it ain't that good. It's not the kind of movie that is just so exceptional or pathetically gross that it should warrant that sort of attention. I think two things have contributed to this attention. The first is that 'Rough Sex' was released by Anabolic, and there is an enormous amount of economic jealousy in the porno world. I think that Anabolic falls victim to most of it and there is a reason for that. The president and founder of Anabolic, Chris Alexander has two qualities that do not endear him to anyone in the porn business. He is brutally honest to a fault and will always tell the truth. Number two, he doesn't kiss anyone's ass. I have told him on numerous occasions that he needs to lie and kiss ass more and we won't have any problems. That's not his nature. That those are amazing attributes. I wish I had them, but I don't. I have been in a lot of different worlds in my life and have yet to find anyone with his level of morality. As odd as that might sound it happens to be the case. So, 'Rough Sex' has garnered this unwarranted attention because it was released by Anabolic and that's unfair for this simple reason. The number one criticism of this movie is that it is going to bring down a curse on the house of porno. That 'Rough Sex' will be the straw that breaks the camel's back, that 'Rough Sex' as a singular piece of work at a moment in time is the piece that galvanized all the anti-porn forces across the country and will destroy pornography as we know it is a pathetic assumption and evaluation of the reality. Will the house of porn come down? Maybe. Why would that be? Perhaps we'll have a new administration. Perhaps there will be a new Justice Department and perhaps that Justice Department is going to go after pornography. If it does, I can assure everyone that it's not because of 'Rough Sex'. Of the eight thousand tapes that are put out, I would say that ninety percent of the people in the United States of America would find those as abhorrent and objectionable. Of the ten percent that are jerk offs like myself, I would say that ninety percent of them would never admit it. There is not going to be any groundswell of support for pornography when someone comes after us. When they come after us, it's not going to be because of me, it's going to be because all of us. I don't want to talk about anyone specifically, but I'll mention one scenario. I have had some criticisms from another pornographer, someone that I happen to admire and his hook is for young girls to walk around on public streets, with their faces covered in semen. I happen to think that's terrific, but I can assure that those people who find 'Rough Sex' objectionable are certain to find that objectionable as well. It's just not fair.
The same people who are criticizing you, are letting plenty of other potential lighting rods slip by. This year, we had performers stating that they are twelve years old in scenes. There were women with their heads shoved into ovens, Christ figures sodomized by priests, yet the critics let them slide. I may not understand B & D or find it sexually appealing, but it is a legitimate sexual lifestyle, but personally, I can't see how your movie can be so vile and appealing to pedophiles is all right. Does their hypocrisy make sense to you?
It makes no sense for a number of reasons. The first reason is that what I am portraying in my movies is an absolutely legitimate lifestyle enjoyed in every corner of this country. I happen to know that because I have been living it for twenty five years. The critical issue here that people are missing is that I am not shooting in people who are just in it for the money. I want to shoot people who derive pleasure from it. Once in a while, I get fooled. You may have read my response on RAME, and I stand behind that. I have been fooled, but then I stop. I am not interested in hurting someone who doesn't derive pleasure from it or doesn't want it. I am not interested in degrading anyone who doesn't derive pleasure from it or doesn't want it. I have had a number of relationships in my life. Some of them have been S & M relationships and some of them have been intimate, fulfilling relationships that had no degradation, bondage or spanking at all because my partner wasn't into it. By me simply uttering this, it diminishes what I am and I hate to say it, but it's not as though we are monsters, we're just people. Those same people who are attacking me, to be candid with you, I don't think they go for gay porn either. How do they feel about guys getting bent over and plowed in some jail cell by thirteen other guys? It doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, but should I attack it? The answer is absolutely not because that's a lifestyle that these people have chosen. For people to throw stones around in this glass house borders on lunacy.
Even with all the criticism, AVN did award 'Rough Sex 1' with a Best Specialty tape. Was that surprising to you?
Shocking to me and very gratifying. It was shocking because I believe there exists a legitimate dispute of some kind between Anabolic and AVN. Anabolic has not won an award in a number of years. I don't care who you talk to, Anabolic produces, across the board, some of the highest quality pornography ever produced in the history of porno. Day in and day out, there tapes are superb. I'm not saying their tapes are always the best, though I happen to think so, but certainly in a span of five yeas, they have produced wonderful pieces of pornography that have not been acknowledged at the awards. So when I was nominated, I was thrilled because it allowed me to needle Vince Vouyer, but I didn't expect to win. When I did win, I was gratified. I think that the reason it happened was they found something that they couldn't ignore. It fit a host of criteria that they couldn't ignore. One, as you mentioned, and I appreciate that, it was high quality pornography. That is due to the Anabolic family. If I had to shoot this, it would be terrible. It's Chris and Mike John who light it and take care of the technical end. They are wonderful. Technically it was well done and it was different and on the edge. I think they just made the determination that they couldn't ignore it. I appreciate that and it's very gratifying.
There are a number of people who say that 'Rough Sex' should start a wave of self censorship in the industry. You already told me you disagree with that, but is there anything that would make you say we shouldn't be doing this?
Let me retract what I said a bit. I believe that both sides on this issue have made excellent cases. The First Amendment people are right when they say that censorship is a slippery slope. Those who believe in self policing are reminiscent of the gambler who wants to take his meager winnings off the table and go home, just to make sure he goes home a winner. Both arguments hold water. So, my response to you is yes, I believe that self censorship is a very effective method for holding off certain agencies who would seek to harm us. I will say this, if they are going to engage in self censorship, is 'Rough Sex' over the line. Yes. Is there anything else over the line? About four thousand videos a year. There are things going on right now that are way over the line. Certainly my competitors, Max Hardcore, Rob Black and some others are going down to, so here we are.
Has anyone in the industry stood up for you and fought this backlash?
Yeah, Chris at Anabolic and Jamie Gillis.
(Chris Alexander has entered the room and has been listening quietly.)
CHRIS- And all the girls you've worked with.
The girls certainly, with one exception. Interestingly enough, after 'Rough Sex 1' we stepped things up a notch for 'Rough Sex 2' and I had expressed some personal trepidation. The intensity was stepped up a notch and it made me nervous. Chris told me that Anabolic is what it is because we have always provided high quality and have always been bold. Anyone can sit on yesterday's news, but we need to continue to provide product that marketplace is going to accept because it is unique and on the edge.
CHRIS- I might add that the marketplace has no only accepted 'Rough Sex' but embraced it. As much as want to resist complimenting Kahn too much for fear his head will get even bigger, he has done great things for us.
There have been a few negative stories circling lately about the 'Rough Sex' movies. The first one involving Jewel Valmont and some lines that may or may not have been crossed. Any comment on that?
Linda Thoren leveled am outrageous and irresponsible charge that has been refuted by Jewel herself. I could go on the net today and say that Roger Pipe couldn't keep it in his pants when he interviewed me. He was so attracted to me. Now you have to go onto the net and deny it, then call forth all of your witnesses. That's what's happening in the Jewel Valmont Case. Number one, we have the video tape, number two, she continues to work for me, number three, she's called Gene Ross to refute it all. It's pathetic. As I said in my response, I don't play the game of threatening lawsuits and demanding apologies. I like to continue to move forward, but speak categorically on a factual basis. So, the Jewel Valmont charge is pathetically absurd.
What about Regan Starr?
Regan Starr is a different issue. To use a famous quite, the three most horrible slanders there are lies, damn lies and statistics. The Regan Starr episode falls into the first two categories, Lies and Damn Lies. When you write this, try to get the emphasis in there. As I have said, I am not interested in shooting anyone here just for the money. I want to shoot women who derive pleasure. When Regan Starr was booked, I talked with her extensively on the phone. I took a verbal inventory with her, face spitting, face slapping, verbal degradation, spanking, choking, spanking to the point of bruising, and if there is, we would reward you accordingly. This said, the girls always control the scene and we can stop at any time. I asked her if that was acceptable to her. She assured me that she was. Something happened though. If there is going to be some culpability, I admit, and unfortunately I'm doing it on tape, if I am culpable of anything it is that I didn't believe my gut on this one. It's something I have always done and it's always served me well. Your first instinct is usually the right one. After this extensive interview with Regan, she convinced me she could do it. When she came to the set, I spoke with her for another fifteen minutes then went into Chris' office and told him I was going to call the scene. He asked me why. We had a lot of money tied up on the scene already. Don't get me wrong, I've blown a lot of money. When you look like me, you have to spend a lot of money to get laid. Now, I said I was going to call the scene. Chris and I went in with Regan. I told her that she couldn't do the scene. She sold me a bill of goods, assuring me that she could do it. I told her she was underestimating the emotional impact of the scene. The three people in that room left with the idea that we would attempt to get the scene shot.
CHRIS- At that time, he went ahead and agreed to a rate she would be paid if she couldn't finish the scene. She said "OK, but I'm going to do the scene."
We shot the scene and it didn't last more than five minutes. She was spanked, degraded and went to pieces. We killed the scene, gave her three hundred. It cost us approximately two thousand dollars above that and I got nothing except for that little snippet I put in 'Rough Sex 2'. I only did that because I spend so much freaking money on it. There is some talk on the interent that she only received three hundred bucks. Well, she got three hundred bucks for being in front of the camera five minutes, being spanked approximately three times and having a thumb put in her mouth.
CHRIS- And having Mickey G deliver some lines that I don't even think were that harsh.
Well, we didn't make her say fuck my teenie bald pussy which she does gladly, but it was part of the line and I don't apologize for what it is.
All right, the decision to leave that snippet in the movie certainly rubs her face in it.
It certainly comes off as mean spirited.
Why do it?
I left it in because I want to shoot reality. It was a piece of reality and is a piece of the S and M world that some people never see. Frankly, I find it fascinating. It's in there for that reason. I have been with people where that happens, we reach a point when they have had enough and they break down. At that point, we immediately stopped. I know it's hard to believe, but I'm actually a gentleman. That's why I left it in and frankly I'm proud of it.
CHRIS- I wouldn't agree that it's mean spirited though. I think it is reality and left in as such.
I don't want to sound harsh and I hope this doesn't get printed as harsh. You might think it's mean spirited and other people might see it that way, but I don't care. That's not my intent. My intent is to show reality and if people interpret it as mean spirited, there is nothing I can do about it. I stand behind my decision to leave it in the tape and I am proud of it.
You would agree though that it has opened you up for more criticism.
I didn't recognize that that would happen. In retrospect? In retrospect I would have bought Qualcom stock a year ago and made movies just for myself.
Some other charges that have been thrown at you, that you have women for example. True or false?
Rejection. I got roughed up emotionally. I was a recovering addict. I have been sober for twenty years. People become addicted to substances because there happens to be some defect in their life and I obviously have it.
Do you consider the 'Rough Sex' line degrading to women?
Yes, but not generally. The women in them are being degraded for sexual gratification, so the answer is yes. Are you asking me if I'm trying to degrade women across the board, of course not. I have relationships that would astound people in the porn world at other aspects of my life. I am not interested in being hurtful, however if someone derives pleasure out of that behavior, I am the first in line.
Assuming there is a 'Rough Sex 3' down the line, do you want it to be harder, are there more boundaries you want to push?
No. Even us misogynists slash human pieces of vomit have feelings too. I am actually a little tattered by what is going on and I don't care for it. I don't need it. It's not the end of the world.
That's all I've got. Anything you want to say in closing to critics or supporters?
Yes, I think that I am an excellent pornographer and my second line will display my varied ability. I can hit to the opposite field and I hope that my third line will also be some sort of home run.
Thank you very much.